[Cc-webedit] swoop map

Jon Leighton j at jonathanleighton.com
Tue Sep 29 17:00:14 BST 2009 

I think the map we are discussing would have to use the satellite view -
the OSM version is just a grey area saying "Ratcliffe Power Station",
and there is no open satellite data AFAIK.

However, in general I am well up for using OSM in favour of gmaps for
stuff (where OSM has suitable coverage). We have a small embedded map on
the London '09 page - if you wanna replace with OSM then go for your
life.

Jon

On Tue, 2009-09-29 at 16:08 +0100, Carl van Tonder wrote:
> That said (and fair point), why Google over OSM or similar? There was a
> concern raised recently on the list about promoting corporate interests
> (Facebook and Twitter) through the website, and the (understandably)
> pragmatic answer was "to reach as many people as possible". I don't see
> an outreach/networking/integration benefit to using Google maps, though
> I'm happy to hear reasons why I'm wrong.
> 
> Carl.
> 
> On Tue, 2009-09-29 at 13:38 +0100, Jon Leighton wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > 
> > For what it's worth, I think the benefit of doing this with Google maps
> > outweighs the risk. The whole swoop thing is being done very very
> > publicly, and I don't think looking at a map for a public event is
> > sufficient evidence to prosecute somebody. Even if they somehow got hold
> > of the IPs, they'd have to prove that the relevant individual was
> > physically sitting in front of the computer with that IP address.
> > 
> > Basically, I think doing it in a way whereby IPs aren't logged would be
> > nice, but it looks like that isn't possible, and I think we should just
> > do it anyway.
> > 
> > Understand this is controversial - maybe we can have a chat about this
> > specifically and security provisions in general at the gathering.
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > Jon
> > 
> > On Tue, 2009-09-29 at 12:15 +0100, david at vannen.com wrote:
> > > Hosting the map on our own server is outside my knowledge, and unlikely to 
> > > be inside my knowledge in the timeframe, so I'll have to bow out.
> > > 
> > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > From: "Carl van Tonder" <carl at supervacuo.com>
> > > To: <david at vannen.com>; <cc-webedit at lists.aktivix.org>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 9:08 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [Cc-webedit] swoop map
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Hi all,
> > > 
> > > My personal preference would be for openstreetmap (or NASA's satellite 
> > > images) through OpenLayers due to the proprietary nature of Google as a 
> > > service.
> > > 
> > > Sadly, both Google and OpenLayers have the same problem - requests for map 
> > > images of any line are (fairly sensibly from a performance point of view) 
> > > all made through Javascript - i.e. directly to the map provider. This means 
> > > that we have no control over access logs. One way around this would be to 
> > > host our own map image (either Google's or someone else's) and serve it 
> > > ourselves, accessing it through OpenLayers. A custom map layer like this is 
> > > definitely possible, and would probably address our security issues, 
> > > although I'm afraid that having suggested this I don't myself have time to 
> > > do this early enough so as to be useful for the Swoop.
> > > 
> > > It's not that much work (or technically complex) though, and _could_ be less 
> > > work than an illustrated map.
> > > 
> > > Hope this makes some sort of sense.
> > > 
> > > Coal and riots,
> > > Carl
> > > 
> > > -original message-
> > > Subject: Re: [Cc-webedit] swoop map
> > > From: <david at vannen.com>
> > > Date: 29/09/2009 5:31 am
> > > 
> > > <Ah, oops, that was a mis-type, didn't mean to send as-is.>
> > > 
> > > Is there another service we can use, given the time frame?
> > > 
> > > Is there a way of using Google maps without disclosing IP addesses, etc?
> > > Perhaps a way of Onion-Routing the map?
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > From: <david at vannen.com>
> > > To: <cc-webedit at lists.aktivix.org>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 4:59 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [Cc-webedit] swoop map
> > > 
> > > 
> > > >
> > > > I trust Jim Dog's judgemet re. security issues. Hence, as nice as I
> > > > believe a Google map may be, I can't go ahead if he thinks it's a risk.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > > From: <theinnercityhippy at riseup.net>
> > > > To: <cc-webedit at lists.aktivix.org>
> > > > Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 5:25 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [Cc-webedit] swoop map
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >>
> > > >> keep in mind that we need to host the map on our own server, ideally only
> > > >> accessible with an ssl connection and we need to avoid storing any cookie
> > > >> info from the users of this page.
> > > >>
> > > >> An external service like google maps really isn't suitable for this
> > > >> unless the map request is rerouted as coming from our server as we run
> > > >> the risk of users being identified by ip and winding up with so called
> > > >> evidence of conspiricy which we need to guard against. Remember, people
> > > >> need to trust that we have thought of this and are taking steps to
> > > >> minimise the risk or it could backfire badly.
> > > >>
> > > >> If the maps are stored and accessed from our server, we have the removeip
> > > >> apache mod running so it will look like all the requests have come from
> > > >> the localhost in the unlikely event of these application logs being
> > > >> seized
> > > >> (though ideally they should be pointed at /dev/null )
> > > >>
> > > >> feel free to message me off list if you need more advice
> > > >>
> > > >> solidarity
> > > >>
> > > >> jimdog
> > > >>
> > > >>> Sounds great David, go for it.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I look forward to seeing the results :)
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Jon
> > > >>>
> > > >>> On Sun, 2009-09-27 at 21:01 +0100, david at vannen.com wrote:
> > > >>>> Unless somebody who's really in touch with with Google Maps would
> > > >>>> rather do it, I can take this on, and have it done by Tuesday eve. the
> > > >>>> basic map is a quick job, the overlays a bit longer.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> I agree about the need for a printable map.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> DV
> > > >>>>         ----- Original Message -----
> > > >>>>         From: Alistair Alexander
> > > >>>>         To: cc-webedit at lists.aktivix.org
> > > >>>>         Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 8:39 PM
> > > >>>>         Subject: [Cc-webedit] swoop map
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>         There's been a request for an interactive map of the Swoop to
> > > >>>>         be put online.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>         My understanding is that it would need to be more than a
> > > >>>>         google map and would need to show:
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>               * Ratcliffe and surrounding area
> > > >>>>               * Bloc starting points with big arrows showing suggested
> > > >>>>                 routes
> > > >>>>               * Mouseover boxes detailing points of interest
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>         In the time available, it seems like a pretty tall order - do
> > > >>>>         we know any web designer who might be able to do this (very
> > > >>>>         quickly)?
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>         I'd suggest we also need a PDF map for printing out.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>         Alistair
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
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> > > >> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 270.12.11/2089 - Release Date:
> > > >> 4/30/2009 17:53
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> > > > 270.12.11/2089 - Release Date: 4/30/2009 17:53
> > > >
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