[g8-sheffield] Re: g8-sheffield Digest, Vol 5, Issue 12

IAN WALLACE ian.wallace15 at btopenworld.com
Fri Jul 15 15:57:49 BST 2005 

In response to Dan and anybody else who 'likes' the quote from the SWP conference bulletin. The quote is excellent. Nothing wrong with it at all. As anybody who has built a 'local' (eg Nether Edge) anti war group will know. 
Ian 

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Today's Topics:

1. Why SWP undermined social forums? (Dan)
2. Re: [ssf] Why SWP undermined social forums? (Chris Malins)
3. Re: [ssf] Why SWP undermined social forums? (Alan Dawson)
4. Re: [matilda] Sheffield Hacklab proposal we have the
(worldwarfree at riseup.net)
5. Statement on the policing of protests (adriana)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 15:34:34 +0100
From: Dan 
Subject: [g8-sheffield] Why SWP undermined social forums?
To: SF UK , SSF
, G8 Sheffield 
Message-ID: <42D677FA.7060402 at aktivix.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed

Hey up,

Just got forwarded this little snippet from the Conference proceedings 
of 2004 SWP annual conference. As usual, I really can't quite believe 
anyone would be so stupid. Sectarian? Oh yeah - we're sectarian if we 
don't do what the SWP thinks is right - I forget. Bloody hell - I try to 
get over it and just chill out, then I read something like this! AAAUGH!

“Because of the presence revolutionary socialists in the leadership of 
the Stop the War Coalition, the anti-war movement has come to occupy the 
radical space occupied in France by ATTAC or in Italy by the social 
forums and, later, the anti-war movement.

"This is why attempts by the sectarian left to supplant the Stop the War 
Coalition by social forums have failed and deserve to fail. Such 
attempts, portrayed as a programmatic shift to left (because social 
forums raise issues of economic exploitation as well as war), would in 
practice be a move to the right because they undermine the attempt to 
break the Blair government over the issue on which it is most vulnerable.”

http://www.swp.org.uk/resources/Conference2004.pdf

Dan




------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 15:54:41 +0100
From: Chris Malins 
Subject: [g8-sheffield] Re: [ssf] Why SWP undermined social forums?
To: Dan 
Cc: SF UK , SSF
, G8 Sheffield 
Message-ID: <42D67CB1.8040609 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed

Lets focus on breaking the Blair government, that way if we're really 
lucky we'll get the Tories back in. Any attempt to have an intelligent 
political dialogue which could suggest a solution other than oscillatory 
two party politics is a swing to the right. Love the SWP.

Dan wrote:
> Hey up,
> 
> Just got forwarded this little snippet from the Conference proceedings 
> of 2004 SWP annual conference. As usual, I really can't quite believe 
> anyone would be so stupid. Sectarian? Oh yeah - we're sectarian if we 
> don't do what the SWP thinks is right - I forget. Bloody hell - I try to 
> get over it and just chill out, then I read something like this! AAAUGH!
> 
> “Because of the presence revolutionary socialists in the leadership of 
> the Stop the War Coalition, the anti-war movement has come to occupy the 
> radical space occupied in France by ATTAC or in Italy by the social 
> forums and, later, the anti-war movement.
> 
> "This is why attempts by the sectarian left to supplant the Stop the War 
> Coalition by social forums have failed and deserve to fail. Such 
> attempts, portrayed as a programmatic shift to left (because social 
> forums raise issues of economic exploitation as well as war), would in 
> practice be a move to the right because they undermine the attempt to 
> break the Blair government over the issue on which it is most vulnerable.”
> 
> http://www.swp.org.uk/resources/Conference2004.pdf
> 
> Dan
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ssf mailing list
> ssf at lists.aktivix.org
> http://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/ssf
> 

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 16:07:48 +0100
From: Alan Dawson 
Subject: [g8-sheffield] Re: [ssf] Why SWP undermined social forums?
To: Dan 
Cc: SF UK , SSF
, G8 Sheffield 
Message-ID: <1121353668.42d67fc486f37 at springnight.burngreave.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Quoting Dan :


> "This is why attempts by the sectarian left to supplant the Stop the War 
> Coalition by social forums have failed and deserve to fail. Such 
> attempts, portrayed as a programmatic shift to left (because social 
> forums raise issues of economic exploitation as well as war), would in 
> practice be a move to the right because they undermine the attempt to 
> break the Blair government over the issue on which it is most vulnerable.”
> 

"You are a slow learner," said O'Brien gently. "How can I help it?" Winston
blubbered. "How can I help seeing what is in front of my eyes? Two and two are
four."

"Sometimes, Winston. Sometimes they are five. Sometimes they are three.
Sometimes they are all of them at once. You must try harder. It is not easy to
become sane," O'Brien shrieked. "You must love Big Brother. It is not enough to
obey him .... Room 101!" 

AED
-- 
"If you make decisions about software -- or anything -- based solely on
short-term cost and benefit, someone with a longer view can easily
manoeuver you into a trap from which it is hard to escape." 




------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 10:38:23 -0700
From: worldwarfree at riseup.net
Subject: [g8-sheffield] Re: [matilda] Sheffield Hacklab proposal we
have the
To: Chris 
Cc: "M.A.T.I.L.D.A." , Sheffield IMC
, "List for organising protests at
the G8 meeting in Sheffield." 
Message-ID: <1121362703.42d6a30f2b2ba at mail.riseup.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

wood tools. a room with own front door onto matlida street.. In the next few
days ill draw some lose ideas ie plans onto paper.. was thinking of just
takeing down the benches where the lab is now.. haveing looked it would be to
much of a job.. there is enough wood to create new desktops.. we have all the
computers including scanner printer ill bung in two cd burners.. i reckon talk
monday come up with a day for building the benches into the room.. doing other
task such as fixing locks repairing the broken windows cleaning the stairs
toilet and kitchen area.. it might be cool to get some paint from re paint do a
re paint on the space as we are doing the other work.. then move in the donated
computers.. set up the net work and we should be running.. ill bung these
thoughts onto paper with the plans.. all we are in need off is some chairs and
kitchen stuff ie mugs kettle that kind of shit.. all the other stuff we need is
here in the space.. so with a weekend of hardish work we could have the space
running..

0742

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 23:29:59 +0100
From: adriana 
Subject: [g8-sheffield] Statement on the policing of protests
To: g8-sheffield at lists.aktivix.org
Message-ID: <42D6E767.8020209 at mixmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed

>>>> >>Sorry if you already have received this report. There is a call 
for witnesses of arrests on last paragraphs and useful contact numbers 
for those concerned.

>> >> Updates will continue to appear on the G8 Legal Support Group 
website:
>>>> >> www.g8legalsupport.info
>>>> >>
>>>> >> The G8 Legal Support Group can be contacted by email:
>>>> >> g8legalsupport at riseup.net


>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Initial Statement on the Policing of the Protests against the G8 in
>>>> >> Scotland in July 2005
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> G8 Legal Support Group
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> During the protests against the G8 over 700 people were 
detained by the
>>>> >> police, often overnight, and around 354 people have been 
arrested and
>>>> >> charged. The courts have imposed draconian bail conditions, 
not only
>>>> >> preventing those arrested from continuing their protests 
against the G8
>>>> >> summit, but forcing those not resident in Scotland to leave at an
>>>> >> impossible speed. As a direct result of this tactic, some 
people have
>>>> >> been rearrested for breach of bail. People unable to give an 
address

in

>>>> >> the UK have been remanded in prison, even though in all the 
cases we

are

>>>> >> aware of, none faces serious enough charges to result in a prison
>>>> >> sentence
>>>> >> even if convicted. Amongst those remanded in custody is one person

aged

>>>> >> 16 and a woman with a child.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> The police made widespread use and abuse of powers under 
Section 60 of
>>>> >> the
>>>> >> Criminal Justice & Public Order Act 1994. This section is 
supposed to
>>>> >> be
>>>> >> used to search for weapons. However it has been used as a blanket
>>>> >> authority to stop and search in a manner designed simply to 
intimidate
>>>> >> protesters. For example, everyone attending the protest at 
Dungavel
>>>> >> Detention Centre was subject to a bag search. At the Hori-zone
>>>> >> ecovillage
>>>> >> in Stirling, the police at times searched everyone who came and 
went.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> The police also often placed protesters in cordons, the legality of
>>>> >> which
>>>> >> is still uncertain, detaining people for many hours. At the 
Hori-zone
>>>> >> ecovillage in Stirling for long periods of time the poilce 
refused to
>>>> >> let
>>>> >> anyone leave. No legal justification was provided for this 
abuse of
>>>> >> power.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> The police also banned protests. They cancelled the G8 
Alternatives
>>>> >> demo
>>>> >> at Gleneagles "for reasons of public safety" and this led to 
coaches of
>>>> >> protesters being detented on a roundabout eleven miles away from
>>>> >> Auchterarder for an hour. Eventually the protest was allowed to go
>>>> >> ahead.
>>>> >> On the this and other days many protesters were arrested whilst
>>>> >> travelling
>>>> >> to protests and held for alleged conspiracy. At Waverly train 
station
>>>> >> in
>>>> >> Edinburgh peole were prevented from holding a spontanous protest

against

>>>> >> the ongoing 'war on terror'.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> The public were prevented from attending the sheriff's court, 
meaning
>>>> >> that
>>>> >> people faced the court without support from friends. 
Apparently the
>>>> >> reason was that their may be protests at Court, although there 
had been
>>>> >> no
>>>> >> actual protests just groups of concerned friends.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Finally we note that this was the largest policing operation 
ever seen
>>>> >> in
>>>> >> the UK. The state was clearly prepared to devote unlimited 
resources

to

>>>> >> the policing operation, all with the sole aim of preventing the 
leaders
>>>> >> of
>>>> >> the G8 of being aware of the popular discontent with their 
policies and
>>>> >> the effect of those policies on the vast majority of the worlds
>>>> >> population.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> For these reasons we unreservedly condemn the policing of the 
protests
>>>> >> at
>>>> >> the G8 summit in Scotland in July 2005.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> NOTES
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Updates will continue to appear on the G8 Legal Support Group 
website:
>>>> >> www.g8legalsupport.info
>>>> >>
>>>> >> The G8 Legal Support Group can be contacted by email:
>>>> >> g8legalsupport at riseup.net
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> The G8 Legal Support Group urgently needs to hear from witnesses to
>>>> >> arrests. Please email us or complete the witness form on our 
website.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> The G8 Legal Support Group will issue a full report on the 
Policing of
>>>> >> the
>>>> >> Protests against the G8 in Scotland in July 2005 in due course.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> A prisoner support group is being set up. Contact: July 2005 
Prisoner
>>>> >> Support Group, c/o 17 West Montgomery Place, Edinburgh, EH7 5HA.

Phone:

>>>> >> 0131 208 0767 Email: july2005solidarity at yahoo.co.uk
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> www.ldmg.org.uk
>>>> >> Postal address: LDMG, C/o BM Haven, London WC1N 3XX
>>>> >>
>>>> >> ---------------------------------
-- 


Please, never despise the translator. She is the mailman of human 
civilisation.
(Pushkin).





------------------------------

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