[g8-sheffield] Re: g8-sheffield Digest, Vol 5, Issue 12
Chris Malins
chrismalins at gmail.com
Fri Jul 15 16:41:02 BST 2005
Excellent in the sense that...
IAN WALLACE wrote:
> In response to Dan and anybody else who 'likes' the quote from the SWP
> conference bulletin. The quote is excellent. Nothing wrong with it at
> all. As anybody who has built a 'local' (eg Nether Edge) anti war group
> will know.
> Ian
>
> */g8-sheffield-request at lists.aktivix.org/* wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Why SWP undermined social forums? (Dan)
> 2. Re: [ssf] Why SWP undermined social forums? (Chris Malins)
> 3. Re: [ssf] Why SWP undermined social forums? (Alan Dawson)
> 4. Re: [matilda] Sheffield Hacklab proposal we have the
> (worldwarfree at riseup.net)
> 5. Statement on the policing of protests (adriana)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 15:34:34 +0100
> From: Dan
> Subject: [g8-sheffield] Why SWP undermined social forums?
> To: SF UK , SSF
> , G8 Sheffield
> Message-ID: <42D677FA.7060402 at aktivix.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
> Hey up,
>
> Just got forwarded this little snippet from the Conference proceedings
> of 2004 SWP annual conference. As usual, I really can't quite believe
> anyone would be so stupid. Sectarian? Oh yeah - we're sectarian if we
> don't do what the SWP thinks is right - I forget. Bloody hell - I
> try to
> get over it and just chill out, then I read something like this! AAAUGH!
>
> “Because of the presence revolutionary socialists in the leadership of
> the Stop the War Coalition! , the anti-war movement has come to
> occupy the
> radical space occupied in France by ATTAC or in Italy by the social
> forums and, later, the anti-war movement.
>
> "This is why attempts by the sectarian left to supplant the Stop the
> War
> Coalition by social forums have failed and deserve to fail. Such
> attempts, portrayed as a programmatic shift to left (because social
> forums raise issues of economic exploitation as well as war), would in
> practice be a move to the right because they undermine the attempt to
> break the Blair government over the issue on which it is most
> vulnerable.”
>
> http://www.swp.org.uk/resources/Conference2004.pdf
>
> Dan
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 15:54:41 +0100
> From: Chris Malins
> Subject: [g8-sheffield] Re: [ssf] Why SWP undermined social forums?
> To: Dan
> Cc: SF UK , SSF
> , G8 Sheffield
> Message-ID: <42D67CB1.8040609 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
> Lets focus on breaking the Blair government, that way if we're really
> lucky we'll get the Tories back in. Any attempt to have an intelligent
> political dialogue which could suggest a solution other than
> oscillatory
> two party politics is a swing to the right. Love the SWP.
>
> Dan wrote:
> > Hey up,
> >
> > Just got forwarded this little snippet from the Conference
> proceedings
> > of 2004 SWP annual conference. As usual, I really can't quite
> believe
> > anyone would be so stupid. Sectarian? Oh yeah - we're sectarian
> if we
> > don't do what the SWP thinks is right - I forget. Bloody hell - I
> try to
> > get over it and just chill out, then I read something like this!
> AAAUGH!
> >
> > “Because of the presence revolutionary soci! alists in the
> leadership of
> > the Stop the War Coalition, the anti-war movement has come to
> occupy the
> > radical space occupied in France by ATTAC or in Italy by the social
> > forums and, later, the anti-war movement.
> >
> > "This is why attempts by the sectarian left to supplant the Stop
> the War
> > Coalition by social forums have failed and deserve to fail. Such
> > attempts, portrayed as a programmatic shift to left (because social
> > forums raise issues of economic exploitation as well as war),
> would in
> > practice be a move to the right because they undermine the
> attempt to
> > break the Blair government over the issue on which it is most
> vulnerable.”
> >
> > http://www.swp.org.uk/resources/Conference2004.pdf
> >
> > Dan
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > ssf mailing list
> > ssf at lists.aktivix.org
> > http://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/ssf
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 16:07:48 +0100
> From: Alan Dawson
> Subject: [g8-sheffield] Re: [ssf] Why SWP undermined social forums?
> To: Dan
> Cc: SF UK , SSF
> , G8 Sheffield
> Message-ID: <1121353668.42d67fc486f37 at springnight.burngreave.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Quoting Dan :
>
>
> > "This is why attempts by the sectarian left to supplant the Stop
> the War
> > Coalition by social forums have failed and deserve to fail. Such
> > attempts, portrayed as a programmatic shift to left (because social
> > forums raise issues of economic exploitation as well as war),
> would in
> > practice be a move to the right because they undermine the
> attempt to
> >! ; break the Blair government over the issue on which it is most
> vulnerable.”
> >
>
> "You are a slow learner," said O'Brien gently. "How can I help it?"
> Winston
> blubbered. "How can I help seeing what is in front of my eyes? Two
> and two are
> four."
>
> "Sometimes, Winston. Sometimes they are five. Sometimes they are three.
> Sometimes they are all of them at once. You must try harder. It is
> not easy to
> become sane," O'Brien shrieked. "You must love Big Brother. It is
> not enough to
> obey him .... Room 101!"
>
> AED
> --
> "If you make decisions about software -- or anything -- based solely on
> short-term cost and benefit, someone with a longer view can easily
> manoeuver you into a trap from which it is hard to escape."
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 10:38:23 -0700
> From: worldwarfree at riseup.net
> Subject: [g8-sheffield] Re: [matilda] Sheffield Hacklab proposal we
> have the
> To: Chr! is
> Cc: "M.A.T.I.L.D.A." , Sheffield IMC
> , "List for organising protests at
> the G8 meeting in Sheffield."
> Message-ID: <1121362703.42d6a30f2b2ba at mail.riseup.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> wood tools. a room with own front door onto matlida street.. In the
> next few
> days ill draw some lose ideas ie plans onto paper.. was thinking of just
> takeing down the benches where the lab is now.. haveing looked it
> would be to
> much of a job.. there is enough wood to create new desktops.. we
> have all the
> computers including scanner printer ill bung in two cd burners.. i
> reckon talk
> monday come up with a day for building the benches into the room..
> doing other
> task such as fixing locks repairing the broken windows cleaning the
> stairs
> toilet and kitchen area.. it might be cool to get some paint from re
> paint do a
> ! re paint on the space as we are doing the other work.. then move
> in the donated
> computers.. set up the net work and we should be running.. ill bung
> these
> thoughts onto paper with the plans.. all we are in need off is some
> chairs and
> kitchen stuff ie mugs kettle that kind of shit.. all the other stuff
> we need is
> here in the space.. so with a weekend of hardish work we could have
> the space
> running..
>
> 0742
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 23:29:59 +0100
> From: adriana
> Subject: [g8-sheffield] Statement on the policing of protests
> To: g8-sheffield at lists.aktivix.org
> Message-ID: <42D6E767.8020209 at mixmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>
> >>>> >>Sorry if you already have received this report. There is a call
> for witnesses of arrests on last paragraphs and useful contact numbers
> for those concerned.
>
> >> >&! gt; Updates will continue to appear on the G8 Legal Support
> Group
> website:
> >>>> >> www.g8legalsupport.info
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> The G8 Legal Support Group can be contacted by email:
> >>>> >> g8legalsupport at riseup.net
>
>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> Initial Statement on the Policing of the Protests against
> the G8 in
> >>>> >> Scotland in July 2005
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> G8 Legal Support Group
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> During the protests against the G8 over 700 people were
> detained by the
> >>>> >> police, often overnight, and around 354 people have been
> arrested and
> >>>> >> charged. The cou! rts have imposed draconian bail conditions,
> not only
> >>>> >> preventing those arrested from continuing their protests
> against the G8
> >>>> >> summit, but forcing those not resident in Scotland to leave
> at an
> >>>> >> impossible speed. As a direct result of this tactic, some
> people have
> >>>> >> been rearrested for breach of bail. People unable to give an
> address
>
> in
>
> >>>> >> the UK have been remanded in prison, even though in all the
> cases we
>
> are
>
> >>>> >> aware of, none faces serious enough charges to result in a
> prison
> >>>> >> sentence
> >>>> >> even if convicted. Amongst those remanded in custody is one
> person
>
> aged
>
> >>>> >> 16 and a woman with a child.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>! ;> >> The police made widespread use and abuse of powers under
> Section 60 of
> >>>> >> the
> >>>> >> Criminal Justice & Public Order Act 1994. This section is
> supposed to
> >>>> >> be
> >>>> >> used to search for weapons. However it has been used as a
> blanket
> >>>> >> authority to stop and search in a manner designed simply to
> intimidate
> >>>> >> protesters. For example, everyone attending the protest at
> Dungavel
> >>>> >> Detention Centre was subject to a bag search. At the Hori-zone
> >>>> >> ecovillage
> >>>> >> in Stirling, the police at times searched everyone who came
> and
> went.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> The police also often placed protesters in cordons, the
> legality of
> >>&g! t;> >> which
> >>>> >> is still uncertain, detaining people for many hours. At the
> Hori-zone
> >>>> >> ecovillage in Stirling for long periods of time the poilce
> refused to
> >>>> >> let
> >>>> >> anyone leave. No legal justification was provided for this
> abuse of
> >>>> >> power.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> The police also banned protests. They cancelled the G8
> Alternatives
> >>>> >> demo
> >>>> >> at Gleneagles "for reasons of public safety" and this led to
> coaches of
> >>>> >> protesters being detented on a roundabout eleven miles away
> from
> >>>> >> Auchterarder for an hour. Eventually the protest was
> allowed to go
> >>>> >> ahead.
> >>>> >> On the this and! other days many protesters were arrested
> whilst
> >>>> >> travelling
> >>>> >> to protests and held for alleged conspiracy. At Waverly train
> station
> >>>> >> in
> >>>> >> Edinburgh peole were prevented from holding a spontanous
> protest
>
> against
>
> >>>> >> the ongoing 'war on terror'.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> The public were prevented from attending the sheriff's court,
> meaning
> >>>> >> that
> >>>> >> people faced the court without support from friends.
> Apparently the
> >>>> >> reason was that their may be protests at Court, although there
> had been
> >>>> >> no
> >>>> >> actual protests just groups of concerned friends.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> Finally we note that this was the largest policing operation
> ever seen
> >>>> >> in
> >>>> >> the UK. The state was clearly prepared to devote unlimited
> resources
>
> to
>
> >>>> >> the policing operation, all with the sole aim of preventing
> the
> leaders
> >>>> >> of
> >>>> >> the G8 of being aware of the popular discontent with their
> policies and
> >>>> >> the effect of those policies on the vast majority of the worlds
> >>>> >> population.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> For these reasons we unreservedly condemn the policing of the
> protests
> >>>> >> at
> >>>> >> the G8 summit in Scotland in July 2005.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> NOTES
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> Updates will continue to appear on the G8 Legal Support Group
> website:
> >>>> >> www.g8legalsupport.info
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> The G8 Legal Support Group can be contacted by email:
> >>>> >> g8legalsupport at riseup.net
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> The G8 Legal Support Group urgently needs to hear from
> witnesses to
> >>>> >> arrests. Please email us or complete the witness form on our
> website.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> The G8 Legal Support Group will issue a full report on the
> Policing of
> >>>> >> the
> >>>> >> Protests against the G8 in Scot! land in July 2005 in due
> course.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> A prisoner support group is being set up. Contact: July 2005
> Prisoner
> >>>> >> Support Group, c/o 17 West Montgomery Place, Edinburgh, EH7
> 5HA.
>
> Phone:
>
> >>>> >> 0131 208 0767 Email: july2005solidarity at yahoo.co.uk
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> www.ldmg.org.uk
> >>>> >> Postal address: LDMG, C/o BM Haven, London WC1N 3XX
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> ---------------------------------
> --
>
>
> Please, never despise the translator. She is the mailman of human
> civilisation.
> (Pushkin).
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.sheffield.dissent.org.uk/
> http://wiki.sheffieldsocialforum.org.uk/G8
> g8-sheffield mailing list
> g8-sheffield at lists.aktivix.org
> http://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/g8-sheffield
>
>
> End of g8-sheffield Digest, Vol 5, Issue 12
> *******************************************
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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> http://wiki.sheffieldsocialforum.org.uk/G8
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