[g8-sheffield] Re: g8-sheffield Digest, Vol 3, Issue 62
IAN WALLACE
ian.wallace15 at btopenworld.com
Tue May 31 10:46:05 BST 2005
"I don't think demonstrations achieve anything. At least I don't know
of one that has. I'm guessing MPH is some kind of continuation of
Jubilee 2000 who managed to get 100,000 at the last G8 in Birmingham?
I think they were basically ignored - the only success being that Tony
Blair made some sort of wishy washy statement about how he supported
them but wasn't going to do anything anyway."
I think this statement is SERIOUSLY flawed. The Poll Tax demonstration was probably the single biggest factor (building on the non-payment campaign) which ended the Poll Tax. The 'little things' which build up to the 'big things' are ESSENTIAL!
The big problem with the 100,000 at the last G8 in Birmingham was that 'the left' did not seriously involve itself. It was cynical. And learned its lesson!!
Anyway, how come 'we' haven't attacked Syria, or Iran, or Cuba, or North Korea?
Ian
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Today's Topics:
1. Poster - version 2 (atw)
2. Re[6]: [g8-sheffield] Good and bad protesters (atw)
3. Re: Good and bad protesters (J)
4. Letter to G8 alternatives (@mp)
5. Re[2]: [g8-sheffield] Good and bad protesters (atw)
6. Re: Poster - version 2 (Chris)
7. Oops - anti-poverty bands made with forced labour (Dan)
8. Re: Good and bad protesters (adriana)
9. Prayers for Dissent Christians... (@mp)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 21:29:35 +0100
From: atw
Subject: [g8-sheffield] Poster - version 2
To: g8-sheffield at lists.aktivix.org
Message-ID: <1907297579.20050530212935 at totalserve.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I've put PDF and hi res PNG versions of the poster on the SSF website.
http://wiki.sheffieldsocialforum.org.uk/G8Shefpublicity
I've left the demo dates off because although they are still
publicised on the StWC web site I'm not sure where they start or when.
I wrote them an email several days ago but have not received a reply.
Their latest bulk email acknowledges the police bans and "urge[s]
Sheffield people to oppose restrictions" but still doesn't say whether
that means the demo are going ahead or not.
And since we want to get these to the printers tomorrow morning we
can't wait any longer.
Can someone with broadband and Adobe Acrobat download the PDF version
and check all the text is visible with the right fonts. (eg. dates,
web address etc.) To do this compare with the image version...
http://wiki.sheffieldsocialforum.org.uk/Image:Poster2-websize.png
Nick and Helene seem to have a problem where on my computer it seems
to open fine. Would be good to know before taking it to the printers
in the morning.
For anyone wanting to print out a copy but only has a dial up
connection the hi res PNG version is only 500k compared to the PDF
which is 11mbs.
cheers
steve
Independent grassroots news: www.sheffield.indymedia.org.uk
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------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 21:38:49 +0100
From: atw
Subject: Re[6]: [g8-sheffield] Good and bad protesters
To: g8-sheffield at lists.aktivix.org
Message-ID: <193973538.20050530213849 at totalserve.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
dh> So far as I know, Make Poverty History hasn't made any statement
dh> attacking Dissent. The media are stirring this up - and it seems to be
dh> working.
I don't know either. I was going on a sentence in Chris Malins email,
"Make Poverty HIstory and other similar groups are typically willing
to condemn types of behaviour".
dh> I don't deny the importance and usefulness of direct action. But I
dh> don't believe that it's the only form of political action that ever
dh> achieves anything - which seems to be your position, if I've
dh> understood?
dh> The sheer size of take-up of the MPH campaign (including a bandwagon
dh> of celebrities, half of whom doubtless haven't a clue what they're
dh> talking about) has forced the issues of trade, debt and aid to an
dh> unprecedented profile in the British media this year. That keeps up
dh> the pressure on the government, which contributes to (and I say this
dh> through gritted teeth) the British government taking a relatively more
dh> impressive line on those issues compared to other G8 governments.
dh> However, the coalition has not endorsed the government's position,
dh> despite Blair's attempts to co-opt it, but continues to lobby for more
dh> radical reform on all three fronts.
dh> This won't end capitalism - but it may save huge numbers of lives
dh> in the mean time.
I certainly hope so - but I wouldn't count on it. And if the other G8
governments don't agree then the British government's effort will be
simply words and Blair will have both his cake and eat it. He'll have
credibility with MPH for having tried but nothing will have changed.
steve
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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 13:39:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: J
Subject: Re: [g8-sheffield] Good and bad protesters
To: g8-sheffield at lists.aktivix.org
Message-ID: <20050530203940.6954.qmail at web52008.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
hmmm, that story appears to have serious innaccuracies
in it, i question its claims. The bands are made from
fair trade cotton as far as i know and not rubber.
Correct me if i am wrong.
--- Chris wrote:
> Hi
>
> On Mon 30-May-2005 at 05:13:11PM +0100, Steve
> Against the
> War wrote:
> >
> > dh> Steve - sales of white bands currently stand
> at 3.5
> > million.
> >
> > I don't know what you mean by a 'white band' or
> whether
> > it is relevent it has to what I said?
>
> The white bands are the MPH history wrist bands:
>
> - G8 Make Poverty History Wristbands made in Sweat
> Shops
> Report
> http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2005/05/312061.html
>
> Chris
>
> --
> Aktivix -- Free Software for a Free World
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.sheffield.dissent.org.uk/
> http://wiki.sheffieldsocialforum.org.uk/G8
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>
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>
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------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 21:36:45 +0100
From: "@mp"
Subject: [g8-sheffield] Letter to G8 alternatives
To: g8-sheffield at lists.aktivix.org
Message-ID: <429B795D.6000005 at telefonica.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
This letter may well be known by its recipients by now!
I am transcribing it (as it was drafted in February this year). since i
think we have some g8-alternatives representatives in sheffield dissent
as well and on this mailing list...
> Dear G8 Alternatives,
>
> Firstly an introduction: we are the G8 Legal Support Group. The Legal
> Support group was set up in July 2004 as a “working group” of the Dissent
> Network of whom you’ll be aware. We have a website with more information
> about us at : www.g8legalsupport.info.
>
> We have members with many years of collective experience who have provided
> legal monitoring and support for such groups as the Legal Defence &
> Monitoring Group ( www.ldmg.org.uk/ ) in London, who have monitored the
> annual London Mayday celebrations, DSEI as well as numerous other events;
> and also members involved in legal support for Trident Ploughshares
> (www.tridentploughshares.org/ ) activities and supporting those arrested
> during direct action at Faslane Naval Base. Additionally, both groups take
> part in court monitoring for those charged with offences, together with
> other acts of solidarity as part of their follow up work.
>
> While we continue to attend Dissent Network gatherings and remain its
> “Legal Working Group” we consider it important that legal support is
> co-ordinated across the range of protests and demonstrations being planned
> for the summit, regardless of the organisation that calls it. This is why
> we would like to establish communication and coordination with G8
> Alternatives. As one of the networks organising against the summit, we
> feel it is vital that the issue of legal monitoring, support and
> solidarity for anyone arrested is tackled. We note that you would also
> consider this a priority in your appeal for solicitors that features
> prominently on your website. We too are in the process of establishing
> links with solicitors. This is an example of an area where we are
> concerned that we do not end up duplicating each others work.
>
> Following a meeting of some of our members recently, we identified this
> and a number of other areas that we would like to discuss with you and
> reach some common agreement on. These include:
>
> • The formation of a singular, co-ordinated legal support structure for
> the duration of the summit
> • Whether you would be able to distribute our printed “Guide to Scots Law,
> Police Powers etc” through your networks
> • The co-ordination and logistics of setting up a Legal Support office (we
> are in the process of finding and setting one up)
> • Recruitment of legal observers to monitor the summit demonstrations
> (volunteers do not need prior legal knowledge, we will be holding training
> sessions for legal observers prior to the summit
> • Identification issues for legal volunteers ie. We will be wearing orange
> hi-vis vests clearly marked “Legal Observer”. Therefore we would obviously
> need to be clearly distinguishable from, and not confused with, vests that
> march “stewards” may wear.
>
> We would be interested in setting up a meeting with G8A in the very near
> future to discuss these issues and any that you may also have.
>
> In the meantime I attach our working principles which we hope you will
> feel able to support. We are contactable by email at
> g8legalsupport at riseup.net if you have any queries.
>
> We look forward to hearing back from and meeting with you
>
> In solidarity,
>
>
>
> G8 Legal Support Group
>
>
>
> WORKING PRINCIPLES
>
> 1. We give unconditional support to anyone arrested as a result of
> participation in protests or actions against the G8. We are not the judge
> and jury of the validity or otherwise of the tactics of protesters.
>
> 2. The role of legal observers is to observe, gather evidence and witnesses.
>
> 3. Legal observers will not mediate between protesters and the police or
> negotiate with the police.
>
> 4. Legal observers are volunteers with no special legal status.
>
> 5. Legal observers are not necessarily trained lawyers and the advice
> given by legal observers is confined to the advice given by the group as a
> whole.
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 22:19:18 +0100
From: atw
Subject: Re[2]: [g8-sheffield] Good and bad protesters
To: g8-sheffield at lists.aktivix.org
Message-ID: <1359300366.20050530221918 at totalserve.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
J> hmmm, that story appears to have serious innaccuracies in it, i
J> question its claims. The bands are made from fair trade cotton as
J> far as i know and not rubber. Correct me if i am wrong.
A couple bits maybe clarify the situation...
"Oxfam failed to tell other charities that it had decided to stop
ordering from the Shenzhen company." ie. there are now at least 2
different sources for the bands. Maybe some are made from rubber some
some from cotton?
AND...
"it sourced 1.5 million of the bands - made from silicon rubber or
woven fabric - from the Fujian factory" . i.e. They do appear to be
making both.
I'm actually amazed and appalled they're having them made in China
anyway. Why weren't they made in this country which would save the
transport cost and pollution from bringing them half way around the
world?
The whole thing seems like a farce. It does make me feel that the
whole thing is more of an exercise in Making Guilt History rather than
making poverty history. (though with these revelations they may have
failed on that already)
steve
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Message: 6
Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 22:20:26 +0100
From: Chris
Subject: Re: [g8-sheffield] Poster - version 2
To: g8-sheffield at lists.aktivix.org
Message-ID: <20050530212026.GB14959 at aktivix.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hi
On Mon 30-May-2005 at 09:29:35PM +0100, Steve Against the
War wrote:
>
> Can someone with broadband and Adobe Acrobat download
> the PDF version and check all the text is visible with
> the right fonts. (eg. dates, web address etc.) To do
> this compare with the image version...
>
> http://wiki.sheffieldsocialforum.org.uk/Image:Poster2-websize.png
Looks fine with the latest acrobat in linux...
Chris
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Aktivix -- Free Software for a Free World
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 22:23:20 +0100
From: Dan
Subject: [g8-sheffield] Oops - anti-poverty bands made with forced
labour
To: g8-sheffield at lists.aktivix.org
Message-ID: <429B8448.7080709 at aktivix.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Oh dear...
"We were stupid," said Dominic Nutt at Christian Aid. "We didn't check
it out, Cafod didn't check it out, and Oxfam didn't check it out."
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/story.jsp?story=642659
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 00:16:21 +0100
From: adriana
Subject: [g8-sheffield] Re: Good and bad protesters
To: atw
Cc: g8-sheffield at lists.aktivix.org
Message-ID: <429B9EC5.6010901 at mixmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Yep, we are getting closer.
> It wouln't surprise me in the least to find
> out that the reason MPH have condemned others efforts is because the
> police have asked them to do so as a pre condition for the go ahead
> for their demonstration. Or it could be another similar mechanism to
> prompt them into doing so. Whatever the reason its is no indication
> that supporters of MPH believe in the same thing.
atw wrote:
> dh> Steve - sales of white bands currently stand at 3.5 million.
>
>
> I don't know what you mean by a 'white band' or whether it is relevent
> it has to what I said?
>
> However I don't think it is necessary to have a hi degree political
> conciousness to believe in direct action. All you need is a vague
> awareness that the government is not interested in hearing or doing
> what people want, or maybe the fact that demonstrations never change
> anything or that those that are running the government completely mad.
> I think millions of people know these things at some level even though
> they may not have a clue what 'capitalism' means.
>
> There are many examples of this but recently I would say non payment
> of the Poll tax is perhaps the biggest example of people taking direct
> action to change things. Millions were involved. However things like
> the anti-roads protests have also recieved very wide support from the
> public.
>
> If MPH have criticised direct action publicly then I think we have to
> ask why. Why did they feel the need to say anything about these
> actions at all? Why not just focus on what they're doing instead? I
> don't see Dissent or other groups publicly decrying their demos.
>
> Well we don't know for sure but I think we can make a pretty good
> guess. The idea of co-option and divide and rule mentioned in that
> Spinwatch article (http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2005/05/311469.html)
> is probably at the core. It wouln't surprise me in the least to find
> out that the reason MPH have condemned others efforts is because the
> police have asked them to do so as a pre condition for the go ahead
> for their demonstration. Or it could be another similar mechanism to
> prompt them into doing so. Whatever the reason its is no indication
> that supporters of MPH believe in the same thing.
>
> The reason such demos are popular is because they're less risky, and
> the reason they less risky is because they are sanctioned by the
> state. Its also the reason they're never going to get very far.
>
> cheers
>
> steve
>
>
>
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 00:51:12 +0100
From: "@mp"
Subject: [g8-sheffield] Prayers for Dissent Christians...
To: SSF , g8-sheffield at lists.aktivix.org
Message-ID: <429BA6F0.9020808 at telefonica.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>
> 1. G8 event listings/Prayer List (Graham Martin)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 29 May 2005 13:32:28 +0100
> From: Graham Martin
> Subject: [DissentChristians] G8 event listings/Prayer List
> To: For Christians working alongside Anarchists at G8-2005
>
> Message-ID: <4299B65C.2020503 at dsl.pipex.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> As you've all probably realised there are many things going on in the
> run up to the G8 and during it. Please consider using the following web
> page as a prayer list:
>
> http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Local/ImcG82005EventsForReporting
>
> Also, remember to prayer for the convergence meeting today and tomorrow,
> and the next two mini-gatherings, 4th June and 18th June.
>
> Yours for peace and justice,
> Graham Martin
>
> The G8 is coming to Britain!
> 6-8th July 2005, Gleneagles, Scotland.
>
> Prayer-I58 - www.prayer-i58.org.uk - 3rd-8th July.
> "Our aim is to provide and operate a Prayer Tent in the Rural
> Convergence Space during this summer's G8 Summit, between 3rd and 8th
> July. We want to minister practically to those around us and to pray for
> them and the issues which concern them."
>
> Make Poverty History :: Saturday 2nd July, Edinburgh
> Trade Justice - Drop the Debt - More and Better Aid
> *Leeds TIDAL have filled their two trains (1500 seats) already.
> *York Bus (#1): Tickets £20/£15, email me to book yours!
> *Oxfam say 250,000 will attend, so be there!
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> DissentChristians mailing list
> DissentChristians at lists.aktivix.org
> http://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/dissentchristians
>
>
> End of DissentChristians Digest, Vol 4, Issue 16
> ************************************************
As you may well be aware of, Ekklesia is also a part of the MPH coalition.
Nightwatcher
Facts recorder
amp
------------------------------
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