[imc-uk-emergency] irc chat summary

[ionnek]

Hello all:
this is a summary of the irc chat last friday. could people fwd it to their 
local lists? It would be very good to get some feedback from the imc groups 
that are actively involved in mir - even if it's just "go ahead, will 
complain later" or "all crap, lets forget about mir". ...well, not quite :-)?
If you look at this summary or even better at the test page, please bear in 
mind that nearly everything can be changed later. We are just working on a 
version that is good enough and agreed enough to go live.

The log of the irc last friday chat was sent on [imc-uk-process] on 
Saturday 2:37 am:
http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/public/imc-uk-process/2003-May/001177.html.
It's also linked on the twiki (timeline/communication).

The next irc meeting is next thursday, 7pm, #uk - maybe someone can come up 
with an agenda? Vince and I thought maybe to talk about the launch... because:

It's feasible that mir is ready to go live by next weekend!
Are we?
At the latest, the site should go live for 31 May, G8 summit in Evian.

In the irc meeting, we tried to work out a proposal to the process list. 
Vince and Chris have already given some summaries of what was discussed. 
There was a general feeling of: "anyway let's do it one way or the other 
and see what is the best when it's online and change it if necessary".
So if you read this summary, or check the testpage, please bear in mind 
that most things can and will change, as we are getting more experienced 
with the site.

It would be nice to have all the details of the site agreed on by all the 
actively involved groups, before the mir site goes live, but this seems 
impossible (until we wait for another year). So the proposal is to go for a 
kind of opensource development mode - "first do it, then discuss".

All imc groups are warmestly invited to comment on the testsite, or on the 
proposals in this mail - to ask questions, critizise, propose changes.
If the site will go live in a "preliminary state", we will go on discussing 
the major points - which openposting system to use, how the startpage 
features will be generated etc, and hopefully the best solution will emerge 
at some point.

One suggestion that came out of that irc meeting is that it would be good 
if people would familiarise themselves with the testpage and the 
terminology. The link to the twiki "moving to mir" was given numerous times 
(irc.indymedia.org, click "local web" on the  left hand side, then Europe, 
then UK). It contains extensive documentation and large parts are _NOT_ 
written for techs!

Participants: ab, Ana, Andi, chris, Toni, Maquis, Ionnek, sb, vince, from 
Sheffield, Oxford, Scotland, London. (Please add to my summary)

agenda:
1/topics and types, thematic topics. Definitions and proposals.
2/ open publishing.
3/ uk features.


1/ TOPICS AND TYPES

PROPOSAL
- Topic-pages without newswire, but possibility to have rss feeds, or to 
add newswires later, if needed.
- Keep "print", "radio" etc as static pages for the time being.
- Number of clickable topics limited
- List of Issue Topics to start with: world, major reports, environment, 
indymedia,
anti-militarism, global movement, anti-racism. Should be extended when 
stuff turns up on newswire and/or if someone is prepared to look after the 
new topics page.
- Someone has added "major reports" and "world" to the archive bar under 
the banner of the testpage.

DEFINITIONS
(please look also at the MovingToMir Twiki)

Topics: Regional Topics (i.e. Manchester, Sheffield ets) and Issue Topics 
(anti-militarism, environment, etc).
- can be set for newswire postings by the public, for features by admins.
- each item can be assigned to several regional and issue topics.

Types: Article types, like newswire posting, middle column feature 
regional, middle column feature uk.
- can only be set by admins.
- only one article type per item

Examples from other imcs are linked from the twiki, and on this email 
[http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/public/imc-uk-tech/2003-April/000852.htm]

thematic topics "world" and "major reports", to archive existing features.

techs will do templates without newswire, can be changed later.
this means that the public will not be able to choose the thematic topics 
"world" or "major reports".
An rss feed is another possibility for the future.

DISCUSSION
should we have a regional topic "other regions"?
Ana or somebody, can you please fill in pros and cons?
And maybe some explanation on rss feeds?

Should "world" be listed under "regional topics" "because it is a region"? 
Problem: Proposal from imc london that other than regional pages, it should 
not have a newswire. Maybe add the global imc newswire?

Should major reports go under "issue-topics", maybe labelled major 
reports-archive?

Should there be an extra section for "archives"?

2/ OPEN PUBLISHING


PROPOSAL for proceeding:
Andi, Chris, Ionnek, Maquis, Vince and Ana propose to code the uk startpage 
"dutch", see how it works, and discuss the open publishing models in depth 
at an evaluation meeting of the network later. (dutch, german, dutch with 
"traffic lights"). This proposal is based on the assumption that presently, 
we don't have enough people to sustain 20/7 newswire moderation. Many imc 
groups are waiting for mir to go live. We would prefer to go launch the 
site with a preliminary model rather than waiting until each group has 
discussed and agreed on one mode.

DEFINITIONS
Moderation DUTCH STYLE: Moderated after publishing on frontpage   -
As soon as a newswire item is posted it appears on the front page. Stuff 
that contravens the guildlines is then moved to 'open content' (trash).

Pro:
everything goes up instantly -> fewer annoyed users
even if noone cleans the newswire, it's still alive

Con: trash appears on frontpage and stays there if noone cleans the newswire
if noone cleans the newswire, trash may take over

Moderation GERMAN STYLE: Moderated before publishing on frontpage  - As 
soon as a newswire item is posted it appears in  'open content' (one/two 
clicks away) and does not show up on the front page. Stuff that doesn't 
contravene the guidelines is then moved to the newswire that shows up on 
the front page.

Pro:
no trash on frontpage, even if noone works on moderating

Contra: if the newswire isn't being moderated 24/7, postings don't appear 
until someone feels like moderating

DISCUSSION:
Sheffield and Oxford IMCs have expressed a preference for the dutch model. 
London hasn't decided yet, ab and sb (Scotland) prefer moderation 
beforehand, Ionnek, Andi, Maquis and Ana (London) preferred moderation 
afterwards.

OPTIONS:
1) delay the launch of MIR until all the actively involved collectives have 
discussed the issue, decided and come to an agreement.

2) Use one model for now, see how it works, and make a decision at an 
evaluation meeting of the network later. Technically, every local imc group 
can customise MIR to their preferred open pubishing version. Robin from 
Lancester says L. is going for the German model.

3/ UK STARTPAGE FEATURES
How are the uk features generated?

DEFINITIONS
If you want to promote an item to appear ONLY on regional middle columns, 
you set article type "regional feature" and click the "regional topics" 
where you want it to appear (for expl Sheffield and Leeds). It will not 
appear on the UK Startpage.
If you want to promote an item to appear on regional middle columns AND on 
the UK Startpage middle column, you set article type "feature" and click 
the "regional topics" where you want it to appear (for expl Sheffield and 
Leeds). It will appear on the UK Startpage AND the regional middle columns 
you chose.
If you want to promote an item to appear ONLY on the UK Startpage middle 
column, you set article type "feature" and click NO "regional topics". It 
will ONLY appear on the UK Startpage.

DISCUSSION
First option: The UK startpage middle column could include ALL regional 
features - this would make the frontpage very dynamic, lots of changes. The 
startpage would reflect the activity of the local collectives. Also, we 
would not need to discuss and reach consensus about what is "important" 
enough for the startpage, as everything would be equally important. But 
maybe some regional features would only be of regional interest and 
therefore should not be on the startpage?

Second option: Decisisions about uk startpage middle column features 
continue to be made on [imc-uk-features]. Regional features can be 
promoted, others can be written especially for the startpage.

Third option: ALL regional features go to the uk startpage by default, plus 
features that are discussed and generated on [imc-uk-features]

There was also a long discussion about the possibility to have an extra 
regional topics page for "other regions".
A feature about a region that doesn't have its own imc group/regional topic 
could go on the regional site that writes it. Or on the uk startpage. Or on 
the page of the geographically closest imc. Or on an extra regional topics 
page called "other regions".
Can someone please fill in the pros and cons?