[Project-fallujah] Re: Your politics are boring as fuck?

[IAN WALLACE]

Thanks Cuthbert. I'll see what else comes. 
Ian

noone noone <machinevman at hotmail.com> wrote:
>"By all means disagree with 'SWP politics'. That is your right. So long as 
>you understand what it is that you disagree with. I'm not at all convinced 
>that you do understand what it is that you disagree with. Why not tell me?"

I have said many time why i disagree with the "SWP politics" (your words not 
mine) but if you would like me to repeat then i shall:
I dont like-
-block voting
-the way that the SWP dominate the agenda of the STWC
-the way the SWP use front organisations to pretend they somthing other than 
the SWP
-the way that you stick to the russian revolution dogma without having any 
practicle solutions
-the manipulation of public protests and public meetings, turning them into 
SWP recruitment stunts
-the aggressive way that you (the SWP) try to recruit people who often know 
little about your organisation
-the way that you hide information about your own organisation
-the hijacking of previously independent organisations
-the obbsesion with students

however these personal dislikes of mine are also relevent to other groups 
and of course the underlying issue is that the SWP has a falling membership 
and traditional meetings just dont appeal to large numbers of people. Stop 
the war coalition monthly planning meetings use to attract huge numbers of 
people now there has been examples where there are only 2 non-swpers 
present.

I find it ironic that ian says
>"Maybe surprisingly (speaking as an SWP member) I agree with much or most 
>of where this thread seems to be heading."

and yet in the StWC as part of the SWP you have voted against any resolution 
that suggests somthing other than doing either a public meeting or a march 
from a to b. Of course you should feel free to not do somthing that falls 
outside your ideological dogma but theres no need to spoit it for the rest 
of us.


Against this back=drop of falling attendances at demos and meetings i have 
argued time and time again that unless we do somthing a little bit different 
and try to apeal to those outside the "educated" and student cliques "the 
left" will fall into terminal decline (if it isnt already). I feel that by 
far the biggest factor for the recent fall in attendences is that there has 
been too much talk and too little action (that is action that has a real 
effect).

Of course the SWP arent to blame for all the problems in the activist scene 
but i have come to the reasoned conclusion that unfortunatly they are part 
of the problem and not the solution.

This should not be taken personally of course...


for now
cuthbert

>From: IAN WALLACE 
>To: robin&aro , 
>project-fallujah at lists.aktivix.org
>Subject: Re: [Project-fallujah] Re: Your politics are boring as fuck?
>Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 00:20:06 +0000 (GMT)
>
>Maybe surprisingly (speaking as an SWP member) I agree with much or most of 
>where this thread seems to be heading.
> 'Politics' for me starts as soon as I come out of my back gate, on my 
>bike, to cycle somewhere, or out of my front gate to catch a bus. (I used 
>to do a lot of walking too, but now I have a big knee problem.). 'The 
>politics of getting to town in the rush hour' are a fascinating subject and 
>it IS 'politics'. Why don't many, many more people use the bus or tram or 
>train to get to town and back? They probably used to (when we had the cheap 
>fares). But now we have more and more dual carriageways. Instead. With more 
>and more cars pumping out greenhouse and otherwise noxious gases.
>If all the money which has been spent on attacking Iraq had been spent 
>instead on improving and encouraging people to use public transport then 
>(a) 100,000 Iraqi people would still be alive (b) our air would be that bit 
>cleaner and climate change that bit further away (c) people would have an 
>enhanced sense that 'change for the better' is possible and so might be 
>looking around themselves much more readily for the next 'change for the 
>better'.
>'Dare to Dream'. 'Demand the Impossible'. Are two phrases which spring to 
>mind. (Two non-boring phrases, that is.)
>I have worked as a Child Care Assistant in a special school for the last 25 
>years. (Did I hear you say 'B O R I N G'?)
>The kids don't seem to think its boring. I don't have my own class, but I 
>do have my own dinner table. We have now done about 15 dinner table 
>'Derbyshire Wayfarer' days out. (A Derbyshire Wayfarer is a ticket anybody 
>can buy at the rail or bus station. £7-50 lets you travel on all buses and 
>trains all over Derbyshire, and into Staffordshire and Cheshire, all day.) 
>Hardly a week goes by without them asking when can we do another. (We 
>varied it by then having a day out to London.) (By train, then tubes and 
>buses.)
>After we've done one of these trips they now know what's coming next. I ask 
>them if they would like to write about it. Ritual protests follow. Then 
>they write about it. They have produced the biggest and best pieces of 
>writing ever seen in our school. They even ask questions like 'How do you 
>spell Macclesfield?' Because, once they've got started they really want to 
>make a good job of it. (My special school is for kids with 'learning and 
>emotional difficulties'. They are supposed to be right little b*st*rds. 
>But, try as they might, they just can't keep it up.)
>Once they start to understand what its all about, that there's a whole 
>world out there (a world that needs changing, I'm glad you agree) then they 
>start to engage with it. They amaze themselves with the quality of their 
>reading, writing, rithmetic, art work, sport, and much more. (We also teach 
>assertiveness - stand up for what you believe in, argue the case, don't let 
>people put you down. And don't put other people down.)
>When our kids say 'b o r i n g' they usually mean something else - 'I don't 
>understand this' or 'this is too difficult for me'. So we explain it to 
>them. As slowly and carefully as it takes. Some of them have not only 
>learnt to do algebra, they have also learnt to ENJOY doing algebra. Once 
>the penny drops that its just puzzles.
>
>By all means disagree with 'SWP politics'. That is your right. So long as 
>you understand what it is that you disagree with. I'm not at all convinced 
>that you do understand what it is that you disagree with. Why not tell me?
>
>Ian Wallace
>
>
>robin&aro wrote:
>Comments:
>
>I agree, feel identified with this character's speech (perhaps a bit too 
>verbose).
>If "politics" is not entertaining and fulfilling somehow in your daily 
>life, you won't be "doing it" for long. But then, why should you do it for 
>ever?
>Anyway, for these characters it is not yet a matter of survival. Yet danger 
>is real: we may be just a bunch of clairvoyants (many clairvoyants are now 
>dead but they have written), uttering, like poor Cassandra, terrible truths 
>that no one listens to because they are unintelligible to the audience.
>But an audience cares for survival...
>anyway, dear project-fallujah members, do you ever have a face- to -face 
>meeting with coffee and snacks somewhere in Sheffield? Or with a veg dinner 
>included (democracy café meetings are doing very well and could be joined).
>In my attempts to understand, i have come to some ideas which if not shared 
>may be only partially right or partially applicable.
>Anyway, don't flog yourselves, don't blame yourselves, it makes no sense.
>Nice to talk
>
>R&A
>
>
>
>"The farther
> > away the object of our political concern, the less it will mean to us,"
>(disagree with this bit but better talk about it)
>
>
>
>When you involve yourself in politics out of a
> > sense of obligation, and make political action into a dull 
>responsibility rather
> > than an exciting game that is worthwhile for its own sake, you scare 
>away people
> > whose lives are already far too dull for any more tedium. When you make 
>politics
> > into a lifeless thing, a joyless thing, a dreadful responsibility, it 
>becomes
> > just another weight upon people, rather than a means to lift weight from
> > people. And thus you ruin the idea of politics for the people to whom it 
>should
> > be most important. For everyone has a stake in considering their lives, 
>in
> > asking themselves what they want out of life and how they can get it. 
>But you
> > make politics look to them like a miserable, self-referential, pointless 
>middle
> > class/bohemian game, a game with no relevance to the real lives they are 
>living
> > out.
> >
> > What should be political? Whether we enjoy what we do to get food and 
>shelter.
> > Whether we feel like our daily interactions with our friends, neighbors, 
>and
> > coworkers are fulfilling.
> >
> > Whether we have the opportunity to live each day the way we desire to. 
>And
> > "politics" should consist not of merely discussing these questions, but 
>of
> > acting directly to improve our
> > lives in the immediate present. Acting in a way that is itself 
>entertaining,
> > exciting, joyous-because political action that is tedious, tiresome, and
> > oppressive can only perpetuate
> > tedium, fatigue, and oppression in our lives. No more time should be 
>wasted
> > debating over issues that will be irrelevant when we must go to work 
>again the
> > next day.
> >
> > No more predictable ritual protests that the authorities know all too 
>well how
> > to deal with; no more boring ritual protests which will not sound like a
> > thrilling way to spend a Saturday afternoon to potential 
>volunteers-clearly,
> > those won't get us anywhere. Never again shall we "sacrifice ourselves 
>for the
> > cause." For we ourselves, happiness in our own lives and
> > the lives of our fellows, must be our cause!
> >
> > After we make politics relevant and exciting, the rest will follow. But 
>from a
> > dreary, merely theoretical and/or ritualized politics, nothing valuable 
>can
> > follow. This is not to say that we should show no interest in the 
>welfare of
> > humans, animals, or ecosystems that do not contact us directly in our 
>day to
> > day existence.
> >
> > But the foundation of our politics must be
> > concrete: it must be immediate, it must be obvious to everyone why it is 
>worth
> > the effort, it must be fun in itself. How can we do positive things for 
>others
> > if we ourselves do not enjoy
> > our own lives?
> >
> > To make this concrete for a moment: an afternoon of collecting food from
> > businesses that would have thrown it away and serving it to hungry 
>people and
> > people who are tired of
> > working to pay for food-that is good political action, but only if you 
>enjoy it.
> > If you do it with your friends, if you meet new friends while you're 
>doing it,
> > if you fall in love or trade funny
> > stories or just feel proud to have helped a woman by easing her 
>financial needs,
> > that's good political action. On the other hand, if you spend the 
>afternoon
> > typing an angry letter to an obscure leftist tabloid objecting to a 
>columnist's
> > use of the term "anarcho-syndicalist," that's not going to accomplish 
>shit, and
> > you know it.
> >
> > Perhaps it is time for a new word for "politics," since you have made 
>such a
> > swear word out of the old one. For no one should be put off when we talk 
>about
> > acting together to improve our lives. And so we present to you our 
>demands,
> > which are non-negotiable, and must be met as soon as possible-because 
>we're not
> > going to live forever, are we?
> >
> > 1. Make politics relevant to our everyday experience of life again. The 
>farther
> > away the object of our political concern, the less it will mean to us, 
>the less
> > real and pressing it will
> > seem to us, and the more wearisome politics will be.
> >
> > 2. All political activity must be joyous and exciting in itself. You 
>cannot
> > escape from dreariness with more dreariness.
> >
> > 3. To accomplish those first two steps, entirely new political 
>approaches and
> > methods must be created. The old ones are outdated, outmoded. Perhaps 
>they were
> > NEVER any
> > good, and that's why our world is the way it is now.
> >
> > 4. Enjoy yourselves! There is never any excuse for being bored... or 
>boring!
> >
> > Join us in making the "revolution" a game; a game played for the highest 
>stakes
> > of all, but a joyous, carefree game nonetheless!
>
><>
>Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 03:14:24 +0000
>From: "2 % Human"
>Subject: [Project-fallujah] The Young Ones IS Re:
>[sheffield-anti-war-coalition] Your Politics Are Boring As Fuck ?
>To: project-fallujah at lists.aktivix.org,
>sheffield-anti-war-coalition at yahoogroups.co.uk
>Message-ID: <41AA9410.2020902 at diamat.org.uk>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> >>The truth is, your politics are boring to them because they really are
> >>irrelevant. They know that your antiquated styles of protest-your 
>marches, hand
> >>held signs, and gatherings-are now powerless to effect real change 
>because they
> >>have become such a predictable part of the status quo. They know that 
>your
> >>post-Marxist jargon is off-putting because it really is
> >>a language of mere academic dispute, not a weapon capable of undermining 
>systems
> >>of control. They know that your infighting, your splinter groups and 
>endless
> >>quarrels over ephemeral theories can never effect any real change in the 
>world
> >>they experience from day to day. They know that no matter who is in 
>office,
> >>what laws are on the books, what
> >>"ism"s the intellectuals march under, the content of their lives will 
>remain the
> >>same. They-we-know that our boredom is proof that these "politics" are 
>not the
> >>key to any real transformation of life. For our lives are boring enough
> >>already!
> >>
> >>And you know it too. For how many of you is politics a responsibility? 
>Something
> >>you engage in because you feel you should, when in your heart of hearts 
>there
> >>are a million things you would rather be doing? Your volunteer work-is 
>it your
> >>most favorite pastime, or do you do it out of a sense of obligation? Why 
>do you
> >>think it is so hard to motivate others to volunteer as you do? Could it 
>be that
> >>it is, above all, a feeling of guilt that drives you to fulfill your 
>"duty" to
> >>be politically active? Perhaps you spice up your "work" by trying 
>(consciously
> >>or not) to get in trouble with the authorities, to get arrested: not 
>because it
> >>will practically serve your cause, but to make things more exciting, to
> >>recapture a little of the romance of turbulent times now long past. Have 
>you
> >>ever felt that you were participating in a ritual, a long-established 
>tradition
> >>of fringe protest, that really serves only to strengthen
> >>the position of the mainstream? Have you ever secretly longed to escape 
>from the
> >>stagnation and boredom of your political "responsibilities"?
> >>
> >>It's no wonder that no one has joined you in your political endeavors. 
>Perhaps
> >>you tell yourself that it's tough, thankless work, but somebody's got to 
>do it.
> >>The answer is, well, NO.
> >>
> >>You actually do us all a real disservice with your tiresome, tedious 
>politics.
> >>For in fact, there is nothing more important than politics. NOT the 
>politics of
> >>American "democracy" and law, of who is elected state legislator to sign 
>the
> >>same bills and perpetuate the same system. Not the politics of the "I 
>got
> >>involved with the radical left because I enjoy quibbling over
> >>trivial details and writing rhetorically about an unreachable utopia" 
>anarchist.
> >>Not the politics of any leader or ideology that demands that you make 
>sacrifices
> >>for "the cause." But the politics of our everyday lives. When you 
>separate
> >>politics from the immediate, everyday experiences of individual men and 
>women,
> >>it becomes completely irrelevant. Indeed, it becomes the private domain 
>of
> >>wealthy, comfortable intellectuals, who can trouble themselves with such
> >>dreary, theoretical things. When you involve yourself in politics out of 
>a
> >>sense of obligation, and make political action into a dull 
>responsibility rather
> >>than an exciting game that is worthwhile for its own sake, you scare 
>away people
> >>whose lives are already far too dull for any more tedium. When you make 
>politics
> >>into a lifeless thing, a joyless thing, a dreadful responsibility, it 
>becomes
> >>just another weight upon people, rather than a means to lift weight from
> >>people. And thus you ruin the idea of politics for the people to whom it 
>should
> >>be most important. For everyone has a stake in considering their lives, 
>in
> >>asking themselves what they want out of life and how they can get it. 
>But you
> >>make politics look to them like a miserable, self-referential, pointless 
>middle
> >>class/bohemian game, a game with no relevance to the real lives they are 
>living
> >>out.
> >>
> >>What should be political? Whether we enjoy what we do to get food and 
>shelter.
> >>Whether we feel like our daily interactions with our friends, neighbors, 
>and
> >>coworkers are fulfilling.
> >>
> >>Whether we have the opportunity to live each day the way we desire to. 
>And
> >>"politics" should consist not of merely discussing these questions, but 
>of
> >>acting directly to improve our
> >>lives in the immediate present. Acting in a way that is itself 
>entertaining,
> >>exciting, joyous-because political action that is tedious, tiresome, and
> >>oppressive can only perpetuate
> >>tedium, fatigue, and oppression in our lives. No more time should be 
>wasted
> >>debating over issues that will be irrelevant when we must go to work 
>again the
> >>next day.
> >>
> >>No more predictable ritual protests that the authorities know all too 
>well how
> >>to deal with; no more boring ritual protests which will not sound like a
> >>thrilling way to spend a Saturday afternoon to potential 
>volunteers-clearly,
> >>those won't get us anywhere. Never again shall we "sacrifice ourselves 
>for the
> >>cause." For we ourselves, happiness in our own lives and
> >>the lives of our fellows, must be our cause!
> >>
> >>After we make politics relevant and exciting, the rest will follow. But 
>from a
> >>dreary, merely theoretical and/or ritualized politics, nothing valuable 
>can
> >>follow. This is not to say that we should show no interest in the 
>welfare of
> >>humans, animals, or ecosystems that do not contact us directly in our 
>day to
> >>day existence.
> >>
> >>But the foundation of our politics must be
> >>concrete: it must be immediate, it must be obvious to everyone why it is 
>worth
> >>the effort, it must be fun in itself. How can we do positive things for 
>others
> >>if we ourselves do not enjoy
> >>our own lives?
> >>
> >>To make this concrete for a moment: an afternoon of collecting food from
> >>businesses that would have thrown it away and serving it to hungry 
>people and
> >>people who are tired of
> >>working to pay for food-that is good political action, but only if you 
>enjoy it.
> >>If you do it with your friends, if you meet new friends while you're 
>doing it,
> >>if you fall in love or trade funny
> >>stories or just feel proud to have helped a woman by easing her 
>financial needs,
> >>that's good political action. On the other hand, if you spend the 
>afternoon
> >>typing an angry letter to an obscure leftist tabloid objecting to a 
>columnist's
> >>use of the term "anarcho-syndicalist," that's not going to accomplish 
>shit, and
> >>you know it.
> >>
> >>Perhaps it is time for a new word for "politics," since you have made 
>such a
> >>swear word out of the old one. For no one should be put off when we talk 
>about
> >>acting together to improve our lives. And so we present to you our 
>demands,
> >>which are non-negotiable, and must be met as soon as possible-because 
>we're not
> >>going to live forever, are we?
> >>
> >>1. Make politics relevant to our everyday experience of life again. The 
>farther
> >>away the object of our political concern, the less it will mean to us, 
>the less
> >>real and pressing it will
> >>seem to us, and the more wearisome politics will be.
> >>

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