[Ssf] Fallujah: murder televised on TV

atw againstthewar at totalserve.co.uk
Mon Nov 15 20:41:00 GMT 2004

spodulike> [rant]Have to say I'm getting a little tired of all the STW
spodulike> bashing around and abouts.

I think reflective criticism is vital if we don't want to keep making
the same mistakes. It's one big difference that I notice between the
left and the direct action people. The left rarely criticise
themselves which is why they continually use the same ineffective
actions decade after decade.

spodulike> The SWP (and some other members
spodulike> of this politico  group or that, but not all thankfully)
spodulike> believe that direct action is not going to get the masses
spodulike> along, they are after all a political group and thus
spodulike> compromise for political gain. They quite happily block
spodulike> roads (which accomplishes bugger all in my view) when they
spodulike> feel the 'time is right'.

The blocking of major roads could acheive a lot because, as the
Argentinians say, it is blocking the flow of commodities which is

However the SWP haven't really got a clue when it comes to this kind
of thing. They only do things to try to get credibilty amongst those
who might join their party. They blocked the road at the protests
outside Gap which had no effect on Gap whatsoever. It was absurd.

spodulike> In Shef and nationally SWP have usually had the majority in
spodulike> the  movement (tho' often in Shef only by one or two
spodulike> people) which has led to the feeling this is 'just the way
spodulike> STW is', which is not the case.

The fact is the SWP are prepared to manipulate things to get the STWC
to do what they want it to do. So whilst its true that the STWC is not
just the SWP in terms of people attending, in essense it is an
organisation that carries out SWP's policies.

spodulike> If  people don't like STW as it is then they could
spodulike> come along and change the movement, or if they don't fancy
spodulike> the stress, form another one (as  suggested I think). But
spodulike> the main problem is that the numbers of people  who turn
spodulike> out for anything tend to be small.

One reason (though not the only one) is that the SWP go to these
things. I, like many other people, are totally put of going to events
where they are. I went to the vigil briefly the other night and saw
them preying on some poor guy who went along to it. He was on his
phone at the time whilst one person stood to his left with the sign up
sheet and another with leaflets and papers. Its repulsive. The
petitions are used to get peoples addresses so they can then go round
their houses and try to talk them into joining.

spodulike> There was an idea for a 24  hour vigil which I liked, but
spodulike> who will turn up? Alison proposed we argue for walk outs
spodulike> from work, but who will get involved? (based on the  last
spodulike> time we asked for walk outs not a lot). So rather than
spodulike> bashing STW  or SWP or anyone else who at least *tries* I
spodulike> would suggest people bash  all the lazy f********QW"£E$ who
spodulike> sit on their arse sucking up the comfortable lifestyle
spodulike> given to them and who would never work towards a  better
spodulike> world because they are too busy stuffing their face with
spodulike> the blood and tears of their fellow humanity [/rant].

The reason many people don't do anything is because they feel
powerless and can't actually change things. The SWP/STWC actualy help
to bring this about by focusing solely on disempowering actions and

Because demos are opportunities to recruit people to the SWP they are
not so bad for those in the SWP. Even if a demo doesn't acheive what
it set out to (which actually they never do, if they did the
government would not give them the go ahead in the first place) for
the SWP they are worthwhile because they get new people to join their

spodulike> There was Grass Roots Opposed to War which was planned as a
spodulike> direct action group, but think that folded cos of lack of
spodulike> interest (atw?).

It never really got going in the first place. I think antiwar stuff
generally has gone down everywhere since the failure of stopping the

The Sheffield email list exists which anyone can join:

grawn-subscribe at lists.riseup.net

though its pretty quiet right now if people with some energy want to
join it could be used to get something started.

spodulike> The social forum could of course spin off a peace/anti-war
spodulike> group. The  strength of the social forum model is no need
spodulike> for the majority voting ' united front' led from London
spodulike> type thing - just what people want to do. Even if an action
spodulike> just makes one person thinks about the world in a way  they
spodulike> haven't before then it's worth it (that's what I keep
spodulike> telling myself anyways:) so small groups are not the
spodulike> problem, all protest is  good, it just won't be the mass
spodulike> movement most on the 'left' want.

I think it is a big mistake to believe that most people are less
radical than than the left. The reason there were such high numbers
involved in the anti war movement was not because the actions were so
liberal. It was because the war was blatently unjust and its reasons
were built upon obvious lies.

Had the only actions against the war been say, actions against bases,
I'm sure many thousands of people would have turned up too.

Most people want to do something against the war but have limited
time. When given a choice between an easier no risk demo and something
a little bit more difficult that's not supported by the National STW
organisation many, of course, will choose the easier, but less
effective option.


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