[ssf] Fw: Action about ANTI SOCIAL BEHAVIOUR ORDERS

Mon Feb 28 17:15:01 GMT 2005

  Prison, youth detention centres and 'local authority holding units' are 
incredibly expensive, in some cases it is cheaper to send the offender to 
eaton and buy them a yacht - it would probably be more effective in reducing 
re-offending rates as well.  Prison is also a very blunt tool in trying to 
stop people from committing crime and they often end up being 'universities 
of crime' so i think that there is a case for having a 'half-way house' (for 
want of a better word) and allowing the offender to try to reform and change 
their behavoir before they go to prison.  Speaking from a personal 
perspective i was once given the chance to prosecute all the way and try to 
send some people to prison or 'let them off', sometimes i wish that 
something like anti-social behavoir orders (or another type of non-prison 
punishment) exsisted and that way they would have got another chance and i 
would be able to continue with my life.

Whats more when i read down the list of reasons to oppose ASBOs some of them 
seem like they arent totally water tight e.g.
>>4.      The government is increasing the use of Asbos, despite the fact 
>>that
>>there is no evidence that they work. Home Office figures show that at 
>>least
>>one third of Asbos are breached.

I could turn that statistic around and say that 2/3 of ASBOs arent breached 
and therefore could be seen as successfull(!)  I think that it is too early 
to tell if they have worked or not, i think any policy needs a good few 
years to tell if it successfull.

further:
>>2.      Asbos are a punitive measure that can criminalise people for 
>>behaviour
>>that is not criminal, and often imposed only on the basis of hearsay 
>>evidence.

Sometimes behavoir does not have to be criminal to be unpleasant and make 
peoples lives a misery, that is why in *some* cases it is good idea to have 
a way of not allowing certain people to go to certain areas etc...  On the 
issue of hearsay evidence, often that is because the victim is too scared to 
give evidence so there is always another side of the coin.

If i were to argue against ASBOs then i would comment on how they are being 
used for an increasing amount of circumstances, for example i heard one was 
used again a farmer to stop his sheep from tresspassing, and i would argue 
that it is innapropriate to use the same peice of legislation against 
farmers as against serious/dangerous criminals who vandalise cars/houses and 
assult others.

If people want to discuss the value of ASBOs i would suggest the democracy 
cafe as oppose to the next ssf meeting.  Unfortunatly i doubt i am going to 
be able to make it, i have to shovel some s**t (yes literally!).

If i were part of a civil liberties group then there are far more important 
things that i would campaign on e.g. prison reform, crimes that are "taken 
into consideration" i.e. not actually solved and the power of the police 
federation.

for now
cuthbert

>From: Chris Malins <chrismalins at gmail.com>
>CC: ssf at lists.aktivix.org
>Subject: Re: [ssf] Fw: Action about ANTI SOCIAL BEHAVIOUR ORDERS
>Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 11:19:52 +0000
>
>I am yet to actually hear the argument against ASBO's properly, pending 
>which I am yet to be convinced that they are a bad idea. Would this subject 
>be worth putting on an agenda for a future meeting. Can someone email me a 
>succinct and compelling case against them. I have to admit that every time 
>I get abused by some little bastard it raises my level of sympathy for the 
>notion.
>
>Chris
>
>Jase wrote:
>>From: "law" <law at allwomencount.net>
>>Subject:  Action about ANTI SOCIAL BEHAVIOUR ORDERS
>>Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 14:05:59 -0000
>>
>>
>>Dear Friends,
>>
>>Please see enclosed a statement put out by a coalition of groups which is
>>calling for a review of Anti-Social Behaviour Orders.  We are aiming for 
>>it to
>>be signed by as many people as possible and would be glad if you could 
>>sign on
>>behalf of your organisation or as an individual.  If you sign as an 
>>individual
>>please mention your job if you feel that is appropriate.  Please send your
>>signature to Legal Action for Women at law at crossroadswomen.net and Matt 
>>Foot
>>at MattF at fishersolicitors.com.
>>
>>Many thanks,
>>
>>Niki Adams
>>
>>
>>ASBO CONCERN
>>
>>We are an alliance of organisations and individuals who wish to campaign 
>>about
>>serious concerns with the use of ASBOs.
>>
>>OUR BELIEFS
>>1.      Anti-social behaviour can cause distress and misery but the 
>>response
>>to it must be appropriate, just, proportionate, positive and effective.
>>
>>2.      Asbos are a punitive measure that can criminalise people for 
>>behaviour
>>that is not criminal, and often imposed only on the basis of hearsay 
>>evidence.
>>
>>3.      They do nothing to deal with the causes of anti-social behaviour 
>>and
>>can distort the work that is being done to build stronger communities.
>>
>>4.      The government is increasing the use of Asbos, despite the fact 
>>that
>>there is no evidence that they work. Home Office figures show that at 
>>least
>>one third of Asbos are breached.
>>
>>5.      Asbos can result in eviction of whole families and are increasing 
>>the
>>prison population, with people being jailed for breaches of Asbos even for
>>offences that would not otherwise be imprisonable. Around 10 young people 
>>a
>>week are imprisoned this way.
>>
>>6.      We want properly funded community and youth services and support 
>>for
>>people with mental health, drug and alcohol or other social problems to 
>>build
>>an inclusive society.
>>
>>AIMS
>>1.      To bring together those concerned about the way asbos are used -
>>charities, professionals, trade unions, community groups, young people and
>>others - in a joint campaign.
>>
>>2.      To publicly highlight the problems with asbos and the need for
>>alternative ways of tackling anti-social behaviour that does not 
>>criminalise
>>people for actions that are not criminal.
>>
>>3.      To counteract the scapegoating and stigmatising of children and 
>>young
>>people and vulnerable groups and campaign for properly funded youth 
>>services
>>and support for those who need it.
>>
>>4.      To campaign for a full public government review of asbos and the 
>>way
>>they are used.
>>
>>Signatories:
>>
>>Organisations:
>>
>>NAPO, CYWU, Inquest, British Association of Social Workers, Action for
>>Children, Fair Play for Children, Brent Youth Company, Holborn GMB,
>>International Prostitutes Collective, Legal Action for Women
>>
>>Individuals:
>>
>>Janet Batsleer, Louise Christian, Bernard Davies, Pam Eland, Matt Foot, 
>>Helen
>>Gregory, Gavin Shelton, Iain Taylor.
>>
>>Matt Foot
>>work: 0207 233 9939
>>mobile: 07769 700 115
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
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