[ssf] Iran: bloggers arrested and beaten

[Jase]

As a political theory liberalism is about the freedom of the individual,
rather than the need for a controlling state, but also entwined with ideas of
equality and compassion. So people can do what they want so long as they are
tolerant and nice. In politics you can have the economic liberalism of the
right, or the social liberlism of the left, or a mish-mash. Liberal is on the
left relative to a political mainstream, but just a word at the end of the
day. Look at National Socialism aka Nazi's.

On the torture of Iranian bloggers, Iran is run by a bunch of corrupt dictats
who have used religion as an excuse to seize power and wealth. The British
government gets other people to do the torture for them
(www.channel4.com/torture) and the state system has many flaws, but usually
the system values human qualities over ideology (there is the ideology of
capital and consumerism but it's limits on individual freedom are not so
severe, at least in this country at this time).

Luckily we are some way from a absolute ruling elite and armed militia, I
think justice and the machinery of state has a lot to do with it. If there is
a rule book which says what is right and wrong, on the one hand it's a pain if
you want to change something, but on the other hand it's a pain if you want to
change something. So we don't have a system where the rulers of the day decide
what the law is and we have to conform. Any change has to jump through hoops.
It is a major reason to try and limit the control politicians have. Although
they are in theory accountable, they are in no way ever impartial. In fact
generally the power of any group should be limited in my view.

The problems with the justice in this country is usually in the courtroom
rather than the laws themselves. We are lucky to live here, and that should
never be forgotton, sadly we only have what we see in daily life to compare it
with and life is a big case of 'I'm alright Jack', so those who are content
with the status quo have no reason to get involved in changing it, or in fact
resisting change instigated by those in power.

Jason


"Everyone believes very easily what they fear or desire" - Jean de la Fontaine

----- Original Message -----
From: "noone noone" <machinevman at hotmail.com>
> I don't really have a problem with liberalism per se but the thing i find
> difficult with it is the fact that it has so many different hats!  Sometimes
> i don't really know what it is....
>
> In the 1800s there was a party called the liberal party that took it upon
> themselves to try to stop people (especially women) from having the vote and
> beleived in defending the british empire and participated in a large amount
> imperialist wars.
>
> Then there is the modern day "liberal democrats" who in my opinion tend to
> be very opportunistic and all things to all people, currently they oppose
> detention without trial unless it is OK'd by a judge.
>
> Then there is dan's very own brand of liberalism which is best described as
> being woolly(!)
>
> I think it is about trying to be nice to people and doing stuff for the
> greater good but who knows!
>
> from
> cuthbert
>
----- Original Message ----- >
>
> >From: Dan <dan at aktivix.org>
> >To: SSF <ssf at lists.aktivix.org>, tom stafford <    >
> >Subject: [ssf] Iran: bloggers arrested and beaten
> >Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2005 12:55:22 +0000
> >
> >Hey up,
> >
> >Being one of them ummy arry liberal types, I never like to miss a chance to
> >qualify and compare.
> >
> >This story:
> >
> >http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4283231.stm
> >
> >On Iranian bloggers being arrested, beaten and tortured, for example.
> >Which is to say, however much things are going in the wrong direction,
> >we're a long way from this. (And it's a million miles from saying that our
> >thoughts are controlled by the corporate press.  Maybe - but we have
> >Indymedia, blogs, freedom of speech, printing presses not owned by the
> >state all over the place...)
> >
> >The other really interesting thing about all this - e.g. with the Indymedia
> >servers, and more recently as regards Iraq's assets being sold off the
> >highest bidder, is how much you get to hear folk who usually talk of
> >breaking the state / how much law is just an extension of capitalism start
> >to cite various international and national laws in their defence.
> >
> >And why not?  It's one reason why we're not going to end up like Iran any
> >time soon - coz of the checks and balances of our judicial system.  It may
> >not be perfect, but it ain't a police state.  Yet.
> >
> >Hope that gets someone riled enough to argue with me.
> >
> >love
> >
> >Dan
> >
> >_______________________________________________
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> >ssf at lists.aktivix.org
> >http://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/ssf
>
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