[ssf] [poltheory!] Wiberawism

[Dan]

Hey up,

I was just trying to justify why I always wittter on about liberalism 
(two key points - limiting power and guarding individual freedom) - but, 
thinking about it, I'm having extreme difficulty working out how what I 
think differs from anarchism...!

But hey, that's OK!  We live in a modern, consumerist society - I can 
pick and choose my political beliefs from a great, vast tapas menu of 
tidbits, without ever really committing myself to anything...!

Dan
----

Jase wrote:

>As a political theory liberalism is about the freedom of the individual,
>rather than the need for a controlling state, but also entwined with ideas of
>equality and compassion. So people can do what they want so long as they are
>tolerant and nice. In politics you can have the economic liberalism of the
>right, or the social liberlism of the left, or a mish-mash. Liberal is on the
>left relative to a political mainstream, but just a word at the end of the
>day. Look at National Socialism aka Nazi's.
>
>On the torture of Iranian bloggers, Iran is run by a bunch of corrupt dictats
>who have used religion as an excuse to seize power and wealth. The British
>government gets other people to do the torture for them
>(www.channel4.com/torture) and the state system has many flaws, but usually
>the system values human qualities over ideology (there is the ideology of
>capital and consumerism but it's limits on individual freedom are not so
>severe, at least in this country at this time).
>
>Luckily we are some way from a absolute ruling elite and armed militia, I
>think justice and the machinery of state has a lot to do with it. If there is
>a rule book which says what is right and wrong, on the one hand it's a pain if
>you want to change something, but on the other hand it's a pain if you want to
>change something. So we don't have a system where the rulers of the day decide
>what the law is and we have to conform. Any change has to jump through hoops.
>It is a major reason to try and limit the control politicians have. Although
>they are in theory accountable, they are in no way ever impartial. In fact
>generally the power of any group should be limited in my view.
>
>The problems with the justice in this country is usually in the courtroom
>rather than the laws themselves. We are lucky to live here, and that should
>never be forgotton, sadly we only have what we see in daily life to compare it
>with and life is a big case of 'I'm alright Jack', so those who are content
>with the status quo have no reason to get involved in changing it, or in fact
>resisting change instigated by those in power.
>
>Jason
>
>
>"Everyone believes very easily what they fear or desire" - Jean de la Fontaine
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "noone noone" <machinevman at hotmail.com>
>  
>
>>I don't really have a problem with liberalism per se but the thing i find
>>difficult with it is the fact that it has so many different hats!  Sometimes
>>i don't really know what it is....
>>
>>In the 1800s there was a party called the liberal party that took it upon
>>themselves to try to stop people (especially women) from having the vote and
>>beleived in defending the british empire and participated in a large amount
>>imperialist wars.
>>
>>Then there is the modern day "liberal democrats" who in my opinion tend to
>>be very opportunistic and all things to all people, currently they oppose
>>detention without trial unless it is OK'd by a judge.
>>
>>Then there is dan's very own brand of liberalism which is best described as
>>being woolly(!)
>>
>>I think it is about trying to be nice to people and doing stuff for the
>>greater good but who knows!
>>
>>from
>>cuthbert
>>
>>    
>>
>----- Original Message ----- >
>  
>
>>>From: Dan <dan at aktivix.org>
>>>To: SSF <ssf at lists.aktivix.org>, tom stafford <    >
>>>Subject: [ssf] Iran: bloggers arrested and beaten
>>>Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2005 12:55:22 +0000
>>>
>>>Hey up,
>>>
>>>Being one of them ummy arry liberal types, I never like to miss a chance to
>>>qualify and compare.
>>>
>>>This story:
>>>
>>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4283231.stm
>>>
>>>On Iranian bloggers being arrested, beaten and tortured, for example.
>>>Which is to say, however much things are going in the wrong direction,
>>>we're a long way from this. (And it's a million miles from saying that our
>>>thoughts are controlled by the corporate press.  Maybe - but we have
>>>Indymedia, blogs, freedom of speech, printing presses not owned by the
>>>state all over the place...)
>>>
>>>The other really interesting thing about all this - e.g. with the Indymedia
>>>servers, and more recently as regards Iraq's assets being sold off the
>>>highest bidder, is how much you get to hear folk who usually talk of
>>>breaking the state / how much law is just an extension of capitalism start
>>>to cite various international and national laws in their defence.
>>>
>>>And why not?  It's one reason why we're not going to end up like Iran any
>>>time soon - coz of the checks and balances of our judicial system.  It may
>>>not be perfect, but it ain't a police state.  Yet.
>>>
>>>Hope that gets someone riled enough to argue with me.
>>>
>>>love
>>>
>>>Dan
>>>
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>>>      
>>>
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>>    
>>
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