[imc-uk-emergency] Script kiddies advocating DDoS attacks

[ionnek]

chris,
I don't know if this is the time to reply to you about the ddos, you're so 
angry.
But I'll try anyway. I'm sorry if you feel wound up by yet another ddos 
intervention. It is just very important to me to consider in which ways 
this technology can and can't make sense, and where the risks for indy are.

At 10:20 29/03/03, Chris Croome wrote:

>You only need one script kiddy to launch a DDoS it is _not_
>collective action.

You are right - and I just wrote a long reply to one of them. Also agree 
that sabotaging the internet is in a way cutting the branch we're sitting 
on. Without any positive outcome.

On the other hand, like any tool, I think DDos can also be used as an 
efficient, collective political action tool. Certainly not if someone 
downloads a script somewhere and posts it on indy. But kind of "half 
manual" ddos attacks can make sense if they are embedded in a larger 
campaign. The campaign against the Lufthansa operates on all channels. It's 
basically an image pollution campaign against an airline that is 
operational in deporting people. The "deportation class" uses traditional 
demos on airports, they inform passengers, pilotes, stewards about the 
deportation practice and also about what they can do against it. The 
campaign is based on the "no one is illegal" network all over Germany, 
people who help asylum seekers, lobby against racism and racist laws, go to 
demos. The campaign interferes cleverly with the annual shareholder 
meetings, and once, they did a ddos attack. they didn't use one strong 
computer trying to bring the new lufthansa internet presence down. They 
used a script that would only work if many people participated, and they 
focussed on a mass participation of 13000 in their press release.
In this sense, I think ddosses can be more than just dangerous, 
irresponsible script kid pranks.

As to the danger for indymedia - for some reason I'm not that worried that 
indymedia gets ddos attacked. Its just not the usual target. People who 
oppose indymedia, I think, would use other ways to bring us down.
For me, the danger for indymedia is always that we may be held liable for 
what's posted on the newswire. We try to make clear the character of an 
open platform (see ed guidelines), which is only restricted by the 
editorial guidelines. But considering that they sued imc netherlands for 
just providing a link to the incriminated website "radical", I guess that 
we are always at risk. On the other hand, I don't want to get into a mode 
of self-censorship.

it is a riddle.

Ionnek

>If, for example, CNN had been DDoS'ed of the net as some of these
>postings have advocated things like the use of napalm which was
>reported on CNN wouldn't have got out:
>
>   http://globalresearch.ca/articles/CNN303A.html
>
>Do people really think that Indymedia isn't vunerable to a DDoS?
>
>Perhaps it's only after it's too late and the internet has been
>totally fucked up that people might realise that this kind of
>behaviour on the net is totally innapropriate :-(
>
>This is all the stuff from the last days advocating a DDoS:
>
>   http://uk.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=60182&group=webcast
>
>   http://uk.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=60183&group=webcast
>
>   http://uk.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=60143&group=webcast
>
>   http://uk.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=60012&group=webcast
>
>   http://uk.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=59977&group=webcast
>
>   http://uk.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=59944&group=webcast
>
>   http://uk.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=59787&group=webcast
>
>   http://uk.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=59763&group=webcast
>
>   http://uk.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=59739&group=webcast
>
>   http://uk.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=59736&group=webcast
>
>   http://uk.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=59548&group=webcast
>
>   http://uk.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=59427&group=webcast
>
>Personally I have more useful things to do like going on a demo
>today and reporting on it than replying to all this nonsense.
>
>Sorry if this is email is grumpy, I didn't get enough sleep and this
>shit is really pissing me off :-(
>
>Chris
>
>--
>Sheffield IMC: http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/imc-sheffield
>_______________________________________________
>imc-uk-emergency mailing list
>imc-uk-emergency at email-lists.org
>http://www.email-lists.org/mailman/listinfo/imc-uk-emergency